dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on Jan 13, 2013 11:54:00 GMT -5
Yes, that's what I noticed about Jack, plus the tailset is the same. Glad to hear he's enjoying his food.
I came to the conclusion that if I had a dog with no allergies I would still feed Orijen because the bio-availability of the protein is top notch. It's expensive but I can feed 25% less of it because it is nutrient dense. So, I'm carrying less home from the store and it's easier on the dog's digestive system (less squatting), plus improved muscle tone. I just hope the manufacturer doesn't change it.
Thanks Dyanne, I am really pleased with the collar. A lady in Quebec makes bridle leather gear for sighthounds, but it works well for Dobes.
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on Apr 14, 2013 13:18:02 GMT -5
________________________
They've done it again. Yesterday I bought a new bag of Orijen Six-Fish and the bag is smaller, price is higher, and the formula has changed. I'm transitioning and holding my breath.
It appears Champion has come out with a freeze-dried line that is 90% meat.
The caloric value of the product I buy is lower by 30 kcal per cup than before and has pears added. I'm nervous.
I see that chick peas, red lentils, green lentils, and peas have taken a prominent position in the ingredients list. Clearly Champion learned nothing from the formula changes of last year. Flowery marketing language does not compensate for ingredient quality.
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Post by hooligan on Apr 15, 2013 9:07:22 GMT -5
________________________ They've done it again. Yesterday I bought a new bag of Orijen Six-Fish and the bag is smaller, price is higher, and the formula has changed. I'm transitioning and holding my breath. It appears Champion has come out with a freeze-dried line that is 90% meat. The caloric value of the product I buy is lower by 30 kcal per cup than before and has fruit added. I'm nervous. Well, that's a bummer. Fortunately, Jack survived the Acana switch with just a mild and short-lived bout of diarrhea. After that, he was fine. But really, Champion should inform their retailers so that they can pass the word along to their customers.
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on Apr 15, 2013 10:30:28 GMT -5
Now that they're shipping to the U.S. they must have to find ingredients to compensate for the increased production.
I mixed the new formula with the old and Tyrion has become very itchy, scratching his ears and under his legs, biting his toes, waking up from a sound sleep with a start to scratch and bite himself. All this after only two meals.
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Post by dobermoms on Apr 15, 2013 20:08:02 GMT -5
We haven't noticed any changes here.
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Post by Dobereich on May 15, 2013 16:41:33 GMT -5
Now that they're shipping to the U.S. they must have to find ingredients to compensate for the increased production. I mixed the new formula with the old and Tyrion has become very itchy, scratching his ears and under his legs, biting his toes, waking up from a sound sleep with a start to scratch and bite himself. All this after only two meals. OK, so this is enough for me to start on with my rant about Acana (among other foods). First thing you should know about your boy Marion is that he comes from a line that really has never tolerated legumes. Maxi, Indi.. I would always look for foods that were bean and pea free. A very small amount would cause explosive diarrhea. As the generations passed, the sensitivity lessened over time, but some dogs (not just Dobes) have an intolerance to peas and beans. It is not considered bio-available, and I think it is one of the worst trends in commercial pet food right now. Its a very broad stated inclusion in many pet foods now, but I want to focus primarily on Champion pet foods(Acana/Orijen). Firstly, I have raised my dogs on several good holistic foods over the years. I would trial a food for a year or two with one or two dogs before ever deciding to really promote it. But for the last 12 years I was feeding Canidae, with a couple dogs being fed Go'Natural. Last year Canidae ramped up their production (with Diamond) to cushion the blow as started production in their own plant. It just so happened that this was when Diamond got nailed for salmonella contamination and all the food was recalled. Needless to say Canidae was not ready to produce enough food to replace the returns and meet new production, and so they fell behind. I had no choice but to move on. I had already been using the Acana Grasslands for 2-3 years with a couple dogs and really liked the diversity of the formula. So I switched everyone over to Acana, even the dogs that were on the Go'Natural. Within months the bag got smaller, and the ingredients changed. In came the red lentils and field beans, and bye bye Grasslands! I switched over to Sport and Agility and Chicken and Burbank. This seemed to be going well until after their kitchen fire 6 months ago. I have not confirmed this yet, there is rumour that after the fire, Champion Pet foods took on an investor. This could make some sense of things. Because I'd say that something changed in the production or source of ingredients in the Chicken and Burbank that is not being printed on the label. I think this change took place sometime in January, because by February/March I started seeing changes in my dogs. First dog affected was Isis, who started to get so itchy that she would drop on the spot to scratch frantically if you even touched her. It has been a cold winter, so I started adding more essential fatty acids to her diet. Then one of our pugs started to get itchy, she had tiny scabs all over the top of her back. That pug was spayed just weeks before, she we considered it was a reaction to the anesthesia. Then Isis started getting gastric upset, it would hit her suddenly and she was start licking the floor and looking for things to eat to make herself barf. She started becoming more gassy as well. A few weeks later a couple more of Pugs started getting itchy, and now they too (Isis included) were literally forming scabs on their backs. I started seeing a very strong resemblance in Isis's skin as what I have seen in dogs fed diets preserved with BHA/BHT (greasy flakes at the base of the tail, sores, etc). Then the final straw was when Isis bloated. I was thinking it could have been from eating snow which was riddled with pine needles. I didn't really think it was the food right away, because I saw no change in the formula that could cause such a reaction. In fact I was starting to this that this 13 year old might have had a gastric tumour or something along that line. Isis had 3 episodes where she was in full crisis, hacking and bloating in front of my eyes... you could see her girth increasing by the minute! If I didn't know what to do, or if I wasn't home, she would certainly have died. I took her off the Acana and put her onto the Go'Salmon and problem solved! No more G.I. issue, skin is getting better, and she is a happier dog today. The pugs will take longer to get over the itchiness, which is a manifestation of toxins (toxins being comprised of anything that a dog is unable to metabolize or tolerate). The fatter the dog the longer it takes to get rid of toxins. Dobes being so lean tend to reflect food changes within weeks compared to some breeds. So all this said and done. I have worked in Animal Nutrition for longer then I have bred dogs. I didn't want to sound the alarm until I was 100% sure that nothing else could explain the happenings to my dogs. But everyone is completely off the Acana food now and I am feeding the Go'Salmon and Summit Holistic. Stools are good, dogs are happy, skin issues will take a bit to get better, but I see improvement already. Oh and yes... these are grain and meat formulas like I have always fed for over 20 years. I add the meat that I want to add, but I have a solid staple to go by. I posted on Dobereich Dobes Facebook page to ask anyone else if they were having gastric or skin related issues. However with only one year of being on this food, most of my clients are still feeding their dogs Canidae. so there weren,t a lot of reported issues. I did however get this photo from a SCWT breeder. She says this is what happens to Wheatens when they are fed soy products. this dog was being fed Acana grasslands. Attachments:
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Post by susanw on May 15, 2013 17:59:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the update on Acana Monica. Yes, I've noticed Quin scratching more recently and I'm seeing more hair on his brush but I had chalked that up to losing his winter coat. He also has more dry skin. Fortunately no bald spots. He's back to more loose stool again as well.
He has become really picky about his food which is also a clue - if he leaves anything in the bowl it's the kibble. He is still hanging in around 75 lbs and hasn't put on anymore weight in a couple of months. I am still feeding Acana grasslands plus the burbank potato which I was trying him on as an alterative. Guess it's time to switch again!!
Boy this is really annoying as I just bought a brand new bag today that I haven't opened yet. That will be going back tomorrow and I just hope my supplier carries one of your alternatives.
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Post by Dobereich on May 16, 2013 3:30:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the update on Acana Monica. Yes, I've noticed Quin scratching more recently and I'm seeing more hair on his brush but I had chalked that up to losing his winter coat. He also has more dry skin. Fortunately no bald spots. He's back to more loose stool again as well. He has become really picky about his food which is also a clue - if he leaves anything in the bowl it's the kibble. He is still hanging in around 75 lbs and hasn't put on anymore weight in a couple of months. I am still feeding Acana grasslands plus the burbank potato which I was trying him on as an alterative. Guess it's time to switch again!! Boy this is really annoying as I just bought a brand new bag today that I haven't opened yet. That will be going back tomorrow and I just hope my supplier carries one of your alternatives. Oh, that was another thing. Kaia and Eden went off their food. Mind you they were getting a bit chunky (Kaia is 75 pounds now). Then a couple days after the complete food switch they were eating like champs again. I feel that I excused the food to long because of circumstances like weather, spring shed, Isis's age, etc, etc... I've lived in this house for 10 years, 9 winter seasonal sheds and have never had issues like this. I know better, and really it shouldn't have taken me as long as it did to come to the conclusion that things were not as they appeared to be with this food. The red Dobes do very well with the Go'Salmon (called sensitivity and shine). I'd say that if you are adding meat to Quin's diet that the Salmon formula might be a good one to try. Go is made in Canada and I honestly have never had issues with the food, and I have used their brand for 8-10 years. I used the Chicken ALS (its called daily defense now). But I referred many dogs over to the Salmon, and changed Indi to the Salmon the last few years of her life.
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Post by susanw on May 16, 2013 8:35:57 GMT -5
Ahh . .I was going to ask you about Kaia and what her weight is now. She's smaller than Quin so if she's up to 75 I would think he should have been a bit more by now. I am still feeding him your meat "stew" and just switched over to bison as the meat ingredient. He was on turkey/chicken over the winter but the local supplier is back at the farmers market so I picked up some ground from her just last weekend. I've also asked her to put aside a couple of large bones for him that haven't been smoked. I imagine they do that to help preserve them but the process usually doesn't agree with his system. So far I think the bison has helped somewhat and he certainly likes it. No nasty fat to drain from the pan either...yeah! I just reread your info and realised that Quin has started eating grass like a cow recently. Doesn't really barf but it sure goes right through him. His dog farts have been getting pretty overwhelming at times too.... . So heading to the store first thing. For anyone else wanting to try Go, a $3 coupon is available on their Petcurean website, for 6lb bag or larger. Well he's eaten exactly 1/2 cup of his breakfast this morning - the rest is sitting in his bowl. He'd rather be outside basking in the sun like Kazi, where he is right now - surveying his little kingdom. All he needs is a lounge chair, sunglasses and a pool.. LOL.
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on May 16, 2013 10:04:08 GMT -5
The pollen count is reported to be higher than ever before this spring, so I had to wonder if that was most of the problem, but in light of this new information I've been reading labels. The Go! kibble has oats, if I remember correctly. Last summer Tyrion was getting a simple duck and oat formula and wouldn't drink water. He'd get hiccups. I had to wonder if the oats would swell and give him cramps, so he learned to avoid drinking. The two that might work are: www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/products/dogs/dry_food/pacific_stream_canine_formula/OR www.canidae.com.au/dog-food/canidae-grain-free-pure-seaThere's a store 2.2 km from my home selling Canidae. (I never seem to get the free bag . . .) I did email Champion Pet Foods and they replied that customers complained about the glycemic index of the potatoes, so they switched to legumes. I remember other breeders who bred to T's sire talking about grain allergies, and now this information about the dam's side reacting to legumes makes me wonder what the chances are a dog could be allergic to everything. It's really impossible to eliminate confounding variables in this situation. I think that the heartworm meds cause itching as well, but with the Interceptor it only seemed to last a few days. But it all ads up so anything that can be eliminated should be.
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Post by susanw on May 16, 2013 12:52:46 GMT -5
Well I just picked up a bag of the Go-Salmon that Monica recommended and threw a couple of handfulls on top of the "old" kibble in Quin's bowl that's been there since breakfast, to see what he'd do. Inhaled everything including the old stuff.
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Post by susanw on May 24, 2013 8:31:34 GMT -5
Just a quick update on the food change. It's been a week since I started switching Quin from Grasslands to Go Salmon and 2 days fully on the new formula. Seems he's lost his appetite and found a horse's. Both last night and this morning he stood over his empty bowl looking for more.
His coat is slowly improving (less dandruff on his flanks) but I have also increased the amount of oil he was getting by dipping into my good wild Alaskan salmon oil. Boy if that doesn't fix it nothing will . . .LOL.
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on May 24, 2013 11:50:25 GMT -5
Tyrion loved the Go! Salmon too, but it contains oatmeal, oats, kamut, and quinoa, so I believe that's the source of the inflammation between his toes.
The red boys aren't as tough as they look! Does Quin ever attack the tattoed area? That's one of Tyrion's most aggravating itches. I heard that his previous owners were feeding him supermarket kibble, so it's possible he has a buildup of toxins and even heavy metals--like arsenic from rice--that make him vulnerable to food sensitivities.
When I was feeding the Orijen I would toss the kibble in olive oil and add a capsule of cod liver oil with one meal and salmon oil with the other. With the Taste of the Wild I don't seem to need the olive oil but I still add the capsules. The small bag I bought first seemed a bit stale, but the large bag I have now looks great.
One of the methods I use to assess results is to check Tyrion's back when he gets up in the morning. The amount of loose hair and dandruff gives me an idea how he's responding to any new foods.
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Post by susanw on May 24, 2013 19:45:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Marion. I've never seen Quin showing any interest in his tattooed area but I will watch for this in future.
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Post by Lisa on May 24, 2013 22:55:43 GMT -5
I am glad we stopped feeding Acana for breakfast approx. an year ago.... My dogs are doing extremely well on 100% raw. No skin problems, no gas, no loose stools, no need to switch foods.
I add oatmeal, kefir and veggies to raw meat. It works great.
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