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Post by Andreina on May 26, 2013 11:34:12 GMT -5
We went raw as well a couple weeks ago and couldnt be happier!! Mommy is cleaning up much smaller poops now and Scarlet doesnt stink anymore ;D
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on May 31, 2013 12:22:01 GMT -5
Most of the commercial raw food contains chicken, and I'm sure Tyrion is allergic to poultry. We tried the Orijen Adult which contains chicken, turkey, and eggs, and couldn't even finish the trial size.
In light of the info Monica provided re soy sensitivities, I'm wondering whether products containing soy oil would be ok to use externally. There's a pad cream with soy oil and insect repellents with soy oil, so it would be helpful to know whether these are safe to use.
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Post by hooligan on Jun 18, 2013 21:55:14 GMT -5
Just read back through this entire thread. For no particular reason, except that someone on DT posted this link to a Facebook post about Acana and legumes, etc. A Florida pet food supplier has stopped selling Acana because of the changes. www.facebook.com/pages/Murphys-Premium-Pet-Food/161426197201030This coincides with what Monica said in a couple of her posts in this thread, and the post suggests that Acana isn't the only co. that is starting to use more legumes. I'm seriously thinking of switching foods again. I'm so disappointed in Acana.
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Post by Dobereich on Jun 18, 2013 22:41:52 GMT -5
Just read back through this entire thread. For no particular reason, except that someone on DT posted this link to a Facebook post about Acana and legumes, etc. A Florida pet food supplier has stopped selling Acana because of the changes. www.facebook.com/pages/Murphys-Premium-Pet-Food/161426197201030This coincides with what Monica said in a couple of her posts in this thread, and the post suggests that Acana isn't the only co. that is starting to use more legumes. I'm seriously thinking of switching foods again. I'm so disappointed in Acana. Didn't read the article yet, but I am not surprised that problems are starting to arise. I expect many more will have issues as well. I just noticed Marion's post about Tyrion's feet. Marion, this is not likely from the 25% grains from the Go', it takes about 2 months for a Dobe to get rid of toxins in their body. Isis is a lot better after her near deadly experience with Acana, but she still has flakes and an oily discharge that I expect will resolve within the next couple weeks. My Pugs still have scabs, but they are also slowly getting better. This is some serious stuff, and I think dogs are at risk of severe health issues all because of fluctuating commodities. I am not only boycotting Acana... All of Champion Pet foods is off my list of recommended foods and I will be very picky about the amount of legumes in any food I would recommend. This is getting ridiculous, and people buy it up all in the name of "grain free". Well my dogs have always had grains, and they have not had skin and coat issues, or allergies to speak of. As everyone also knows, my dogs lived dam good long lives on those grain diets.
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Post by Dobereich on Jun 18, 2013 22:50:56 GMT -5
In an earlier post I was vague about toxins. But I promise to come back with a very long and informative post ASAP, where I will better explain why dogs have issue with legumes, and how this converts to toxins. But in short, legumes, and in the case of Acana's broadly stated "field beans", can be comprised of soy beans and any other legume. Some dogs are not able to break down the protein, their body doesn't identify with its source, so instead of delivering the protein as it should, it converts into waste, or toxins, that are released to any vulnerable area... usually skin or G.I, or filtering organs (kidney and liver). This is very similar in a sense to peanut allergies and legume sensitivities actually fall under the same umbrella as peanuts protein intolerance. So while this is not the big long post I was going to write, for today I think it should help shed some light on the issue with legumes. Again, this is only an issue for the multitude of dogs that have a legume intolerance. The ones that don't will do wonderfully on their bean based diets.
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Post by Lisa on Jun 18, 2013 22:58:16 GMT -5
I add a bit oatmeal or rice to raw food and it works great for us. I don't think grains are so bad. Dogs need a fiber for better digestion and solid stool.
I believe too many ingredients/preservatives make dogs sick. Dog food should be as simple as possible ex) in raw feeding - 1 (max 2) source of protein for a meal
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on Jun 19, 2013 10:20:10 GMT -5
It may take years for me to sort out various sensitivities, but I'm sure I have a very sensitive boy here. I've never had issues like this, even when the only kibble you could buy was basically crap. We were in Ren's one day and Tyrion found a tiny piece of kibble on the floor and gobbled it up before I noticed it. I picked up another bit and took it to the staff to find out what it was. They didn't know. The next day he was pooping every couple of minutes, big sticky blobs. The only thing it could've been was that tiny small-breed bit of kibble he'd found. The vet told me that the tiniest bit of something can cause a reaction if it's an allergy rather than a sensitivity. When he ate the Go! Salmon his head broke out in bumps, where the hair has now fallen out. The last time this happened, the food had rice in it. That time, I took pics. The good thing is that the reaction is immediate, so I can tell in just a couple days that the food won't work. It can take 4-6 months for the toxins to leave the extremities, so it's a long haul. But, at least he seems to do ok on the Taste of the Wild. I'm steaming white fish to go with it because the protein content is less than the Orijen. He still seems to be putting on muscle over time, and that seems to be what people are noticing about him now. I bought some of the new treats Champion is making to find out if he can tolerate bison and pork. Otherwise, I may end up moving to Nova Scotia! lol
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Post by Dobereich on Jun 19, 2013 11:30:34 GMT -5
Looking at that pic, I would have to wonder if it was just a coincidence that he got the bald spots on his head. This is not a place where dietary reactions are normally seen, more a contact reaction. Its quite odd in deed.
Honestly, I can't understand why things are so different with Tyrion there then when he was here. I did not see any of those issues with him here at all, and he was eating grains, chicken, etc. His coat was improving after being on the Kirkland, which even his previous owner said that it seemed that he lost luster on that food. One thing that dog was good at here was eating, and he only looked better and better every day.
So I originally wondered if what you were seeing initially was a reaction to the anesthesia, since he was put under just before you took him home. All this afterwards though is a complete mystery to me.
Tyrion's sister here can eat anything, and I mean anything! She's been quite the little stinker since she's been pregnant, and it amazes me that she hasn't gotten diarrhea after some of the things she's eaten... um, like two black leather belts with metal studs!!! She surely didn't eat the studs... I hope? But she's been a garbage disposal either way.
I did find that her coat was thinner on the Acana at the end, but not before December... everyone was doing very well with the food before the new year. So Cynder is on the Go'Salmon and she looks great!
Its got to be frustrating for you Marion, for both of your sake I really do hope that you're able to get things sorted out soon... before you head off to Nova Scotia, LOL.
Stupid Champion foods and all their changes, its too bad, because the original Grasslands was such a good formula. The Chicken and Burbank doesn't claim to have all these legumes in that formula... yet that was the food my dogs were reacting to the most. Marion, you are brave to even try their treats. I will have absolutely nothing to do with Champion pet foods. Somethings not right there, and my dogs suffered as a result.
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on Jun 19, 2013 12:11:09 GMT -5
I've emailed Champion, trying to alert them to their downward spiral, and they seem to be getting a bit testy about it
Probably they will sell to P&G and end up on the supermarket shelves. Can't think of any other reason they wouldn't care what informed consumers think.
Tyrion was rubbing his head on the carpet at your place, Monica. You commented that he does that, so I don't know when it started. The anaesthetic wouldn't have helped, I guess, or the emotional issues of rehoming.
When I first got him here, he did steal bread that was defrosting on the kitchen counter more than once. He doesn't do that anymore, fortunately, but I've found that if he finds something, like at the dog park if someone is tossing their cheap treats on the ground, it can be pretty immediate. Can't think what would contact the top of his head that doesn't get on his nose first! lol
The vet wants to do an ear flush, but I'm concerned about the safety of it.
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Post by Dobereich on Jun 19, 2013 12:58:44 GMT -5
Marion, I don't have any carpets in my house, just a small area under my coffee table in the recroom? Separate from your issues with Tyrion. Generally speaking it urks me when people assume that this is a sign of skin issues.
I don't know of a dog that doesn't periodically roll in the grass, beds, blankets, carpets, etc. They do it to either cool down, or because they like the feel, or to rub/scratch the top of their back, shedding, etc.
Like all normal people and dogs, everyone gets an itch and it doesn't mean allergies. Again, this is not an attack on you Marion, I have voiced my opinion on this issue many times during the 20+ years I worked with dietary related allergies in pets.
Below is a pic taken yesterday, just a typical morning, enjoying a romp outside and a roll in the grass. Although I can say Isis did have a reaction to the Acana, Syris didn't, and she has a thick coat.
What can hit the head before the nose? Anything that comes from overhead. Hairspray, perfume, aerosols. Could have been something sprayed at the store you were at the day before?
I enlarged the pic and had a closer look. It seems that these bald spots are dry? Can't always tell from a photo though, you saw the effect in person and I'm sure you have a better idea of what it looked like.
Tyrion looks good in the photos that you have posted, and if its any consolation to you, the rest of his coat that I can see in the pic (on his neck and hock) looks very shiny and healthy.
Have you ever used a stripping knife? I noticed that the hair on his head needed to be stripped (the lighter hair is head hair, on reds it goes light like that). The Mikki face stripper, or a stripping stone works best for the shorter hairs on the head and face. Got to be more careful with the stone, its easy to strip away too much.
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Post by Dobereich on Jun 19, 2013 13:02:34 GMT -5
My pic didn't attach in the last post. Attachments:
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on Jun 19, 2013 15:27:21 GMT -5
They are dry, but that may be because they aren't easily accessible for scratching or licking which would infect them, usually with staph aureus.
When the bumps have come up they look like lymph nodes and later on the hair falls out. Tyrion's also had hives once or twice. The photos are from last summer, and he is doing better now but I am being very careful about anything he comes in contact with, barring not allowing him to be a dog.
I always carry filtered water for him in Britta bottles and don't allow drinking from ground water.
He sheds constantly, so he no longer has the bleached hair.
With all the oils he's getting, he should be effulgent! Yesterday I bought some flax seed oil because my last Dobe did so well with it. They say fish oil is better for dogs, but I'm going to see if his dandruff improves. I'm able to get wild caught cod locally, so he's getting lots of variety--the kibble is mostly salmon with a little whitefish. So he's getting salmon oil, cod liver oil, olive oil, and flax seed oil added to his meals at different times.
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