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Post by nzelic01 on May 21, 2013 18:58:47 GMT -5
I need some advice. My Zeus and Porscha got into a massive scrap yesterday that still has me pretty shaken. Its happened before but it ends quickly but this one I had to intervene and I bearly got them to stop. Zeus had a hurt leg but he is fine today. It happened over a stick that he picked up in the forest that Porscha wanted to take from him. He took a cheap shot at her (didnt connect) but she doesnt take well to cheap shots when its done out of anger and she lost it. It lasted all of maybe 30 seconds but when that happens it feels like eons.
Has anyone ever experienced this? What is the best way to deal with it? I got slightly bit in the hand in the process (nothing major or on purpose) but I had to get in between to stop it. I thought i was gonna have one dead dog. Im so upset by this. Zeus can be toy/stick possessive at times (not all the time) and Porscha likes to get in his face and like humans sometimes hes not tolerant of her behaviour so he warns her and she doesnt take well to that. It was cute before when he use to put her in her place but she wont back off. As a side note, she is going into heat soon, would that be a factor why she is so fiesty?
Im just looking for some suggestions for the future if it ever were to happen again, how to stop it. Its hard to avoid all the sticks in the forest especially when i need them to run.
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Post by Lisa on May 21, 2013 20:57:11 GMT -5
I feel for you It's unusual for a male and a female from the same household to have a real fight. You need to stop it before it happens. If you see any growling or wrestling cut it off. I would walk them on the leash or at least one dog before they are in safe place. Do they fight at home? If you are alone you can not stop a real dog fight. You need another person to help. Two of you should take a position at the back of each dog and crab their hind legs to pull dogs apart. Never get between fighting dogs. You may get serioulsy hurt. You may pull by hind legs a dog who is an attacker but it's risky. Another dog may go after you. Maybe other people have an experience. I have experienced a dog fight Gino got into. So I pulled him back and kicked another dog before his owner came to get the dog... but it was a risky behaviour on my part.
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Post by Lisa on May 21, 2013 21:06:18 GMT -5
Here are the answer: leerburg.com/dogfight.htmMy dogs don't fight anymore. When Asha was younger she annoyed and jumped and nipped Gino. It took a while to teach her not to do it. To stop her I was pulling her back from him from the back of her collar or her hind legs. Then I held her by a collar like show handlers do - pulling back and up to calm her down before the release. It always worked Once I was upset enough and whipped her with a leather leash. After that I did not have a problem to stop her... waving my leather leash LOL Now she is a perfect girl...
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Post by dobermoms on May 21, 2013 22:44:51 GMT -5
Our 2 dogs have had their moments also. Kazi is a "little bugger" at times with Dante, and when she blows ( for her own good reason and nobody elses ), she will not back down and nor will he when he has to defend himself. This is where at least 1 well-trained dog comes in handy....and that is Dante! With at least 1 trained dog who obeys commands ( while in the middle of a major distraction ), it makes a world of difference getting the dogs to "stop" before a fight goes too far.
Keeping a leash on each dog will help you .... or at least on 1 of the dogs to help you gain control of the situation before it gets too escalated.
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Post by dobereyna on May 22, 2013 11:47:25 GMT -5
I'm always been cautious of encouraging behavior that I knew would be "cute when they were younger"... with Reyna I was always cautious of things she did (not much), that could be problematic or "not so cute" later on... like jumping on me, etc... Indi will be getting the same treatment, especially when playing with Reyna and other dogs. A good dose of obedience training from a pro would be my first course of action, giving them "alone time" to go for walks, etc... will help too IMO. When Porscha was here she tried those stunts with Reyna like stealing her rawhide, etc... Reyna was NOT going to stand from that from a puppy and told her so. I let Reyna tell her off "nicely" 2x, and after that a firm LEAVE IT and removal of Porscha from the situation. She learned pretty quick, and after that all Reyna had to do was look at her... she'd sneak over, but a quick snap from Reyna and she was outta there! On the flipside, Zeus lets Reyna do whatever she wants... she steals all his stuff, hogs his beds, etc... with no retaliation whatsoever. Monica will likely chime in when she has a few minutes, but maybe send her a quick email. She might have some ideas that will help. Good Luck & be safe!
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Post by nzelic01 on May 22, 2013 13:24:42 GMT -5
Thanks for all the advice. I guess it was my fault for thinking that Zeus will put her in her place and letting her get away with the cute stuff because if she tries it on us, she doesn't get away with it. He does try to put her in check but she keeps going back for more. She is just a very determined girl. Another mistake I made was in the fight I grabbed Zeus when I should have grabbed Porscha. When I would break them up, she would lunge back. Zeus is more quick to back off if she is held back. They never fight in the house and rarely in the yard. I've even seen them share a bone together but something about these flipping sticks he is so possessive over. So the last few days we have been watching them play to put a stop to any unwanted behaviour and for a little while we will have alone time for walks. We need to revisit training as well because we slacked a little lately. I may use an e-collar for distance training if I don't see improvements in certain behaviours but I will just work a little extra harder for now to shape her back up. Little bugger! She isn't feisty with us like that - really only with Zeus and he won't take her crap. People have told me they are completely shocked that zeus hasn't given in to her yet. He is one stubborn boy lol
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Post by Lisa on May 22, 2013 18:48:51 GMT -5
Please don't use e-collar when dogs are fighting. It will escalate the fight.
If you grab Porscha's collar from the back and pull her from Zeus it may work. The rule is simple - stop it before it starts.
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Post by nzelic01 on May 22, 2013 20:08:18 GMT -5
Oh i can only imagine it escalating a fight. no i wouldnt use it then. Its actually would be for Zeus because he usually starts it initially (porscha just escellates it). I would use it before he even tries it because there is certain behaviour he exhibits just before he does it. If im not close to intervene at a short distance, it would help to have it. I would only use it because i already know what he does befoee it starts so it would be as a preventative. But thats my last resort. I really plan to freshen up their training first. First with Porscha though because she is only 1.5 yrs old soon. I always ever use the ecollar if i cant get a grip on their behaviour in another way. Just takes commitment from me and my hubby to be consistent.
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Post by Andreina on May 22, 2013 21:40:44 GMT -5
I would do more training as well. It could be that Zeus is getting sick of her crap She's at that age where she will test everyone and this is the time you should definitely do more training. You guys need to let her know that her crap Isn't acceptable and she must listen to your commands. But to the original question.... How Do you properly breakup a dog fight!?? I've been staying away from parks lately too. Maybe it's my nerves that get the best of me around strange dogs but I just can't trust them and I think scar picks up on it. She told a lab off a couple weeks ago cuz he wouldn't get off her ass! And he just did the bitey face right back he was a little bugger. Thankfully he got caught on Jen lol! ( and was people friendly lol) so I was able to grab scar. But when it's going on the dogs are moving around and scarlet is trying to get away so it's hard sometimes to make contact with her and grab her?
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Post by nzelic01 on May 23, 2013 10:09:52 GMT -5
Yes i believe he has had enough and she sure is getting testy. We are working with her more and in a few days we have already seen improvements. So we will keep on with the training of both of them and reminding them of whats acceptable and whats not.
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Post by dobermoms on May 24, 2013 5:27:29 GMT -5
That's good to hear that you're seeing improvement. I notice with our guys that if you take some time off of training, they get "lazy"....and start to develop their own habits---usually bad ones.
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Post by nzelic01 on May 24, 2013 19:23:31 GMT -5
So i took my husband along for the walk in the forest today and kind of redid what we did the day i took them when they had the fight and specifically observing their behaviour. Although porscha is the bratty sister who gets in his face zeus is the biggest issue. He just has no tolerance with her when he is that focused or has a stick in his mouth. So my hubby is much better at keeping them in check than i am, no fights happen today but next to the extra traning we are doing with both of them, when i take them together by myself, one will be leashed while the other fetches and i will have to take turns. They get an amazing exercise going after these sticks down these steep hills launching over fallen trees etc. I dont want to stop it, it just has to be controlled. So today was good
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Post by hooligan on May 26, 2013 10:19:05 GMT -5
Are sticks the only source of conflict, or is Zeus also possessive with balls and other toys?
The reason I ask is because you might want to consider eliminating stick fetching altogether -- in hopes that doing so will reduce the conflict between the two.
But I also have another reason for making this suggestion. I've always heard horror stories about the dangers of sticks, but these stories were really driven home to me last fall when a close friend, whose GSD loves chasing sticks, went through a truly frightening experience.
My friend was walking his guy in the woods and throwing sticks, as usual, as the two of them made their way along the trail. On one throw, the stick went end over end, and as luck would have it, his guy pounced on it full force -- at just the right time and at just the right angle for the stick to drive up through the roof of his mouth.
It was horrible. My friend had to carry his screaming, struggling 80-lb. dog, with blood everywhere and the stick jammed in his face, about a mile back to the car and then drive to the vet's office. It was a Saturday, and the office had just closed, but fortunately, the vet was still there catching up on paperwork. The vet did emergency surgery and was able to remove the stick, but he said that if it had penetrated a fraction of an inch farther, his guy would have been dead.
After this very close call, throwing sticks is no longer part of their hikes together.
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dreambarks
Junior Member
Every Dobe has his day!
Posts: 66
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Post by dreambarks on May 26, 2013 11:02:17 GMT -5
Aah, yes, I'd been biting my tongue on this one. There are stats on the dangers of sticks, and yet I'm always seeing people at dog parks encouraging their dogs to play with them. I hate them. There are safer toys.
I used to encounter a man with a Weim and the dog had a huge goiter on its neck. His vet said it was a sliver inside the dog's throat acquired from playing with a stick that caused the swelling.
At least in this situation if you discourage the interest in sticks using distractions you can nip the problem in the bud.
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Post by nzelic01 on May 26, 2013 13:35:54 GMT -5
Zeus is possessive over sticks, balls and ropes. Now that ive heard these stories ill definitely have to get another tool to use. Either way i have to target his possessiveness.
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