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Post by Andreina on Jul 18, 2011 16:36:46 GMT -5
Hi all, Let me briefly explain what's going on with Scarlet and I would love to hear any feedback you all may have. For about 2 weeks, she has consistently had some green goop coming from one eye. It switched to the other eye last Wednesday, and when she woke up she could barely open her eye and it was bloodshot. Took her to the vet asap and they said pink eye and gave us drops. I don't think the pink eye situation correlates with the itching I'm going to mention but thought I would say it just in case. Starting Tuesday night she was covered in red pimple like spots ALL over her belly. That lasted for 2 days and went away. She has been biting and scratching at her back for the past 2 weeks also. This is my main problem... I have noticed about 5 crusty scab-like bumps with some hair loss starting right in the middle of her back. At first I thought they might be mosquito bites as they are swelled a little. You can notice the bumps in her short sleek coat when she is just standing there. There is also a small patch right above her nose like that. The vet when we were there checked and said it was probably just fleas so she gave her a treatment and that was it (although no one saw any). The bumps have been there for 2 weeks now. I haven't specifically seen them grow, or any significant hair loss change in the 2 weeks. Just that she is definitely uncomfortable and I don't know how to help her. She has bad dandruff too - not sure if this has anything to do with the bumps? Could just be a dry skin issue? Anyways, she is still on Canidae, and I'm wondering if it is the food that is not agreeing with her now? I have googled this and seen other instances of puppies on Canidae with the same itchy symptoms, and red spots. Should I be starting to consider another food? If so, do you have any recommendations on what to switch to? Any suggestions as I can help sooth her dry irritated skin? Thanks for reading!!
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Post by toyzshopgary on Jul 18, 2011 23:08:17 GMT -5
What you are describing sounds to me like a staph infection. Does she have in under her chin too, like ingrown hairs and if you squeeze them they will pop like a zit and the hairs will push out? The spots on her nose would be like that.
The areas on the back same thing if you squeeze them they will pop out like a puss blood. Staph infections like that though your vet should know about and decide if she is bad enough to need meds to clear it up or not.
The stuff that comes out has a unique smell and that will tell for sure it's staph. As the puppies are growing their immune system is maturing also and they can be prone to staph. The reds I THINK are more prone to it as they are maturing than blacks.
The chin and nose area be sure to wash her face after meals with a 1/ 2 a warm wash cloth and then dry it with the other half. Same thing after drinking water, dry her chin. The areas after you pop the staph you can spray with Hydeogen Peroxide, You can buy the spray bottles at Shoppers that work well to clean the areas if you expell them or find they expel themselves.
If they have vaccination shots too there is a time after that their immune system is working on the antibodies and may be weakened and the staph appear more.
Zeus had it bad as a puppy. 3 good bouts till about 15 months old. The 1st 2 times he was on meds for it, the last one we toughed it out as I kept hearing not great to go too many rounds of meds. He had the last bout about a month after shots and Monica felt it was like what I described above after shots. I even had his thyroid tested to be sure it wasn't hypothyroidsim and he tested fine.
Maybe food with you, but what you are describing to me sounds exactly like staph and the locations are exactly how it went with Zeus. He's was fine after about 18 months. His coat is beautiful, no more staph and no dandruff either. I know the Miracle Coat Shampoo with tea Tree oil and the Miracle mist spray with tea tree oil helped him too.
Could be demonic mange but again the vet would catch that. Fleas? would have to be really bad flea infestation. Ticks?? Again you would see the ticks.
I'm betting on staph infections that pups can get as they mature. Google it and read what you find. If I saw her and squeezed one and smelled what came out I would know in a second. Zeus even had his breath smelling like staph when he had his 1st couple bouts. I forget the med he was placed on but it cleared it up quickly and he was on the meds for a good length the 2nd time.
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Post by hooligan on Jul 19, 2011 3:55:51 GMT -5
Sounds like puppy pyoderma. Jack went through this, too. As I recall, our vet and Monica agreed that it was probably caused by an immature immune system reacting to an allergen.
As it happened, we first noticed a little circle of 5 spots on Jack's chest while he was at the vet for a round of puppy shots. That was at 11 a.m., and the vet gave us Pyoben, a medicated shampoo, and warned us that the spots might get worse. And they did. By 4 that afternoon, his entire chest and belly were covered.
So as instructed, we went back to the vet to pick up a prescription for Cephalexin (sp?), an antibiotic.
Our vet recommended against allergy testing, saying that by the time the testing regimen was finished, Jack would probably have outgrown the allergy. But we were feeding him Canidae and suspected that it was a food allergy, so we took him off all supplements and switched him to a limited-ingredient, grain-free kibble -- in his case, Natural Balance duck and sweet potato, but there are also other choices.
Between the antibiotic (a long course because pyoderma-staph infection can be persistent), daily bathing with the medicated shampoo (he still loves a warm bath) and the changeup in his food, the spots started clearing up immediately, though a few persisted for a fair length of time.
Jack's spots weren't itchy, though. But this may have been because he was actually at the vet when the spots first popped, and treatment was started instantly.
He did lose a few hairs where each spot appeared, and for a while, he looked a little patchy when the light caught his coat from certain angles. But the hair eventually grew back, and as predicted, the allergy disappeared as he matured.
I would take Scarlet back to the vet. But beforehand, you might want to Google "puppy pyoderma" or "folliculitis" -- or speak to Monica, our resident Google.
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Post by toyzshopgary on Jul 19, 2011 7:54:52 GMT -5
I looked back in the bills and Novalexin is what Zeus was on. They did a skin scraping at 1st too that didn't reveal anything. He was on Canadaie then too but I don't think the kibble was any part of the Staph. Like Dyanne is saying Jack outgrew it, so did Zeus. I also don't remeber Zeus appearing to be itchy or scratchy. Scarlet you say appears to be itchy and scratchy.
I see in the bills he 1st showed something at 5 months. The 1st thing was some benadryl as we thought he may have had a reaction to a insect bite.
I see his 1st round of meds was early Novemeber so he would have been just under a year old. So between 6 months and 11 months is when he 1st had the puppy acne and it was actually quite bad in Oct and I sent Monica some pictures and she said he was beyond just waiting and should get some meds.
The 2nd round I also got from vet Phenrex antibacterial skin cleanser to wash his chin and affected areas a couple times a day. 14 days of the meds.
3rd round in Jan he was still having staph, he would have been 14 months old, they gave him another 14 days of meds.
4th round was middle of May and about 8 weeks after his annual vaccinations, he was still struggling and then he had it down his back, patchy moth eaten looking coat, his chin, his lips . Even on his chest were the metal buckle would normally be. We did the thyroid and it was ok and the vet decided a longer run of the meds double length.
That pretty well ended it. Monica felt the big comeback was as a result of his immune system still not fully developed as he was just over a year and adding the vaccinations just put his system on antibodies and the staph gained hold again.
That was pretty well it. He did have a couple spots by his collar buckle a few months later but I'm pretty sure that he may have a reaction to brass buckles. I popped the areas, kept cleaning with Peroxide and switched collars to always having chrome buckles and not allow them to flake chrome or rust and all has been well since.
He will get the odd ingrown chin hair doberzit but nothing like before. I wash his face and chin after meals and look for any doberzits and if I see one pop out the hair and a wipe with peroxide.
I hope this helps you out. I know I was freaking out pretty good all along about it when it was happening but as Monica said he has outgrown it all.
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Post by hooligan on Jul 19, 2011 9:22:33 GMT -5
. . . I hope this helps you out. I know I was freaking out pretty good all along about it when it was happening but as Monica said he has outgrown it all. Yup, the freakout part is familiar -- OMG, what the heck is happening with our perfect little puppy? But that passes. A couple o' glasses of wine help.
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Post by Andreina on Jul 19, 2011 9:46:06 GMT -5
Lol yeah we were freaking out a bit . But she goes in for her last shot next week so I will just ask our vet then. Thanks for the help! The spots on her back never actually looked like a pimple though and they have always just been scabs. Same on her nose, I thought it was dry yogurt when I first noticed it but after constantly wiping her it obviously wasn't lol. We also had just given her her first bath in the tub the night before the spots on her belly appeared so maybe could have to do with the shampoo. Daddy took her the vets last week so I never got to ask a bunch of questions. If you all don't think I need to rush to the vet then It's ok if I ask next week about it?
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Post by toyzshopgary on Jul 19, 2011 13:29:49 GMT -5
Check your personal email
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Post by Lisa on Jul 19, 2011 16:34:39 GMT -5
Asha got pyoderma when she was 3 1/2 weeks (the same age as Scarlet now). I don't think it's food related. I suspected grass irritation.... or just her immature immunity.
Vaccination may escalate skin issues. Our vet suggested to delay it and deal with her skin issues first. She tested Asha for mites first. None was found. Then she aspirated one of her bumps to confirm infection. Then she prescribed antibiotic Cephalexin for 14 days. We were also using Pyoben shampoo. Bumps were totally gone in 9-10 days.
Don't worry Doberman puppies used to have skin issues. My Gino had localized demodex and it disappeared without treatment after he hit 12 months.
You may want to boost Scarlet immunity with fish oil, colostrum, ester C, etc
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Post by Carolyne on Jul 19, 2011 19:18:31 GMT -5
Interesting chat. Ronin has been on Canidae (dry) since we got him with no issues. I understand our kids are prone to skin conditions. When Ronin was a puppy, he ended up with canine acne on his chin and top of his nose. It disappeared with topical meds, he did grow out of it, he is now five
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Post by toyzshopgary on Jul 19, 2011 22:21:28 GMT -5
I went with the immune boosting stuff too. I for the life of me can't remember what Monica suggested but I did it and I'm sure it helped.
It's not the Canidae it's just being a doberman puppy and some seem more prone to it then others as they mature through puppyhood.
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Post by Andreina on Jul 20, 2011 8:53:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure whats going on now If red bumps on the belly are a part of staph infection then maybe she had it? But her face looks nothing like the pictures you sent me Gary. There is just one spot above her nose, not on her jowls. And it was never like a pimple, no head on it, no puss, it looks just like a scab. Like I said, picture a bit of dried yogurt above the nose, it looks like that. You wouldn't notice it unless I told someone to look for it. You have to part her fur and see it. Same on her back, it's like 5 bumps going down her spine, not pimple like, just like hard scabs, all flaking. Hmmm I don't know! My vet said it was probably just flea bites, but why would they stick around this long it's been weeks. I haven't noticed any significant spreading and it's only the one on above her nose and 5 on her back. If it was fleas they would probably be dispersed more all over the body and go away in less than 3 weeks for sure. I really don't think it's staph from what you all are describing... I'm not sure what it is . There is definitely no trace of any acne or pimple, anything like that. If there was she would have definitely gone back to the vet! Oh well, poor girl, I will just have to see what my vet says next week again. I did talk to them over the phone and they said it could be an allergy, so did my friend who's a vet tech. Just to rule it out I think when we buy our next bag of food which is in a week or so, we are going to switch off Canidae. Can anyone recommend any other food choices? Acana, Go Natural, Orijen? As maybe its the large amount of Chicken and lamb in the food that is suddenly not agreeing with her? Hopefully Monica you are also reading this and can chime in with any advice!
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Post by Lisa on Jul 20, 2011 9:09:30 GMT -5
Daddy took her the vets last week so I never got to ask a bunch of questions. If you all don't think I need to rush to the vet then It's ok if I ask next week about it? You don't need to rush to your vet but... vaccination may lower Scarlet immunity. I would prefer to treat it before her vaccination. Can you get Pyoben shampoo? It's great for staph or pyoderma. We were giving Asha Pyoben bath every second day for a week and then twice a week for a month. Before I got Pyoben shampoo I was using 5% benzoyl peroxide cream for people to clean her bumps. Actually Pyoben is benzoyl peroxide based too. You can read about it here: www.drugs.com/vet/pyoben-shampoo-can.html
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Post by Andreina on Jul 21, 2011 8:26:28 GMT -5
Sorry for the crappy quality, but here are 2 shots of her back if this helps explain. she got a few more bumps just above her nub since last night too. Doesn't hurt her or anything though when i inspect them.
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Post by Lisa on Jul 21, 2011 9:18:40 GMT -5
It looks like staph infection to me. I would ask a vet to test for mites to be sure. Scarlet may need antibiotics if staph infection is confirmed. Otherwise she will lose more hair.
Asha had red bumps on her chest/belly area. She got small bold spots on her chest too. Hair has grown back fast after the treatment.
Pyoben shampoo is good for pyoderma, staph and mange. You may use Silver gel to rub into skin to stop spreading... but antiobiotics work much faster. Don't use steroids. They may damage Scarlet immunity.
...and don't worry. Believe me I saw it many times on Doberman puppies.
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Post by Andreina on Jul 21, 2011 10:18:25 GMT -5
Ok thanks Lisa!! Where would i get this shampoo? Would it be in like a pet valu or something?
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