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Post by Lisa on Aug 16, 2011 10:02:38 GMT -5
I used to have goofy and sensitive Doberboys. They were easy to train. Asha gives me tough lessons. She was a perfect girl before she hit her teens (maybe hormones? ). She is getting joyously unrestrained and doesn't want to obey as she did before. When I call her she doesn't come right away and she may not sit in the front of me. It has never happened before. When we are playing a fetch game she doesn't bring a ball back anymore. It started a week ago in the obedience class. She refused to follow other dogs. My trainer is concerned and I am pissed off... She would spend all nights playing tug bite games and will do all commands perfectly to continue with the game.... I have Balabanov CD. His training method works perfect for her... but I can not get into Schutzhund club! I guess she is getting sick of the basic obedience. Something is not right. Is it the age related problem? Or lack of leadership? When I put a prong collar on her she is good... but as soon as I let her go she shows her stubborness What are your thoughts?
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Post by toyzshopgary on Aug 16, 2011 13:18:51 GMT -5
Maybe she's a male in disguise and her package hasn't dropped yet? JUST KIDDING LISA!! She sounds like a spoiled male brat to me but honestly I'm just trying to make you laugh and not be as stressed. I'm far from any dog behavioral expert or great puppy trainer. I think your local trainer is your best guide over anything most of us here (not counting Monica) might offer for advice. if the trainer you are using can't give you good advice and ways to get Asha on track maybe start looking for a new trainer might be in order. She's still a young pup though too. I feel for your pain though....hopefully you get Asha back on track.
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Post by Lisa on Aug 16, 2011 13:43:16 GMT -5
Our trainer Jackie used to have Dobermans... but her class works great for labs and goldens...not sure about Dobermans. I may take private lessons for now... Something doesn't work for Asha. She was pushed too much I guess.
Gino is eager to please. Asha is eager to please herself.
I noticed if I put the pressure on her she gets into avoidance mode. Did you have similar experience?
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Post by Andreina on Aug 16, 2011 13:46:01 GMT -5
Hey Lisa, I'm definitely the least experienced here... But I'm just thinking, maybe she needs to do more concentration and focus exercises?
Just relating to my experience, when Scarlet was pushing my patience and being stubborn about 2 weeks ago, I went back on track everyday with our focus games. She is starting to pay attention to my commands a lot more now.
You say she is not fetching, do you reward her with a treat every time she brings the toy back to you? Try going back to basics with Asha. Another thing, try only using one special toy for fetch, that she gets to play with only when she is fetching for you and obeying. If you can't get anywhere with the game, stop it before you get frustrated and try some focus games or something else so Asha doesn't get discouraged either.
Also the "leave it" exercise will help focus I think.
Again, I'm offering my extremely novice 2 cents here, so anyone correct me if I'm on the wrong path here... I think you may just need to develop further leadership with her. I'll be the first to critique my handling in that I need to build more confidence and leadership in myself. I had my boyfriend sit there and watch me train Scarlet a few times and he corrected a bunch of stuff I hadn't noticed I was doing wrong. It's good to have someone else critique, wether it be your trainer or not.
What do you mean avoidance mode?? Maybe she is just under too much pressure.
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Post by toyzshopgary on Aug 16, 2011 14:33:49 GMT -5
Asha is eager to please herself. I noticed if I put the pressure on her she gets into avoidance mode. Did you have similar experience? Yup understand and have had similar experience....again I feel your pain.
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Post by Lisa on Aug 16, 2011 19:32:05 GMT -5
Andreina I believe you have a good experience to train dogs. That's so much true about the focus training.... but I have other issues... stubborness and lack of respect to the owner I assume. Doberteens!
Gary if you had similar experience did it pass? Gino was stubborn too but it didn't last and it was not really an issue.
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Post by Andreina on Aug 16, 2011 19:57:31 GMT -5
Lisa if you think it's lack of respect you have to somehow do some sessions that will get the leadership back for you. I think it is all about focus, if she doesn't want to look at you, she's my listening and therefore disrespecting.
I know it's probably easier said than done though on my part. Talk more with your trainer about it. She can help you more probably as she knows Asha personality and can help you face to face.
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Post by dobermoms on Aug 16, 2011 20:06:17 GMT -5
Lisa....I think a phone call to Monica may be in order. We all know that she will be able to offer up a suggestion or two that may help.
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Post by Lisa on Aug 16, 2011 21:05:14 GMT -5
I came home and Asha is an angel! I believe she is moody before her first heat. Monica may chime in ... I hope.
Don't you have any issues with Kazi?
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Post by Andrea on Aug 16, 2011 21:15:30 GMT -5
I know this story all too well, not with a doberman but with my boxer when she was a pup. They can be extremely stubborn and spiteful little shits when they're young too. I started basic training on my own when Fauna was a puppy, she was always fine on walks, fetch and playing she would stick close by. When she was around 5months I started doing training classes with my mom and she was picking up on it nicely. Then she reached a point when she decided she didn't want to cooperate anymore and turned into a nightmare. We were doing a sit stay/recall which she had done with no problems many times before, but this time when I called her she shot me the dirtiest look I've ever seen from a dog, gave me the finger and ran full tilt in the opposite direction and all around the whole gymnasium determined to stay as far away from me as possible or anyone else that might be able to reach her, jumping on the stage off the stage and running circles around me like a little brat until she had me into tears (give me a break i was just a kid lol) Yep my perfect little angel turned into a holy terror. The next day my big mistake was to let her play in the back yard as usual while I was getting ready to go to school. When i called her she gave me that mischievous look as if she was saying, "HA! you want me to come inside? how about you just try and catch me first!" Ran under the deck ripping through mud back and forth doing that Na-na-na boo-boo thing until i got so fed up i had to take a flying leap right into the mud and grab a hold of her. That's when she became well acquainted with the long line! She lost her off leash privileges completely. I had to stop giving her commands that i couldn't reinforce, tell her once and make her do it instantly. We did a lot of the same routine; sit, stay, walk to the end of the leash and if she hesitated to come when called reeled her in fast. I never used a lot of treats with her mostly praise which seems effective for working dogs. It took some work but she grew out of it and got her act together. The story has a happy ending I have one of the best dogs I could ever hope for, Fauna makes me laugh everyday instead of frustrating me to tears! lol
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Post by dobermoms on Aug 16, 2011 21:19:06 GMT -5
I would say just the "normal" puppy issues.....nothing out of the ordinary with her...
Kerrie is working with her daily...walks, etc. I haven't heard her complain about her so far. But I know that if it is bothering you, if you can't call Monica why not email her.
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Post by Andrea on Aug 16, 2011 21:19:23 GMT -5
yeah i told mom to take a look at this too, i think she'll be putting in her 2 cents soon.
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Post by Lisa on Aug 16, 2011 21:44:00 GMT -5
Andrea that's exactly what it's happening here. Asha was a perfect dog and learned very fast. Suddently she decided she had enough. She is OK off-leash and come back when I call but she doesn't do front sit anymore. She doesn't bring a ball back to me... and she may show her mood. Yesterday she run into mud with other dogs! She has never done it before. Gino and me left and I said "Good bye"... she followed us shortly after. I don't chase her. The long line may be in order Today I took her outside of my backyard and she was perfect... heeling squares and eights, come and front sit and finish nicely.... Her mood changes are not good for training. I hope it will pass soon.
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Post by ladydon on Aug 16, 2011 22:28:27 GMT -5
We definitely need Monica's advice on this. Diesel was pretty good when he around Asha's age...I mean he had his naughty days where I literally just wanted to wring his neck ...my gawd that dog tested my patience. Took him to obedience class and it curbed a lot of his bad habits and things started to look bright. Mind you I had to do my homework...we had multiple 5-10 min training sessions throughout the day and I saw the difference in him by the time he was 6-8 months old. His come command took a lot of work though. Sometimes when he is focused on something, it's a bit harder and it takes time for him to come but I'm quite happy that he comes when I want him to come...I just have to really mean it when I call him. My problem now is that some of his old habits are starting to come back now that he's turned 1. It's like OMG I WANT TO PULL ALL THE HAIR FROM MY HEAD!!! He's testy, complainer, refuses to listen at times and don't even get me started on the whole avoidance issue. When he is being corrected, he has a habit of rolling his eyes ...looking at all directions except me and my face is is inches away from his. Now I'm partly convinced that he's reached the 'teen' phase where he's just being stubborn just for the heck of it. I know he knows his commands and I know he knows what I'm saying...it feels as if he's developed selective hearing and he's giving me the "talk to the hand mom." LOL. But regardless of all the problems I'm facing right now, I still continue to correct him if he ever does something naughty to show him that I'm still the boss. I still continue with my daily training sessions with him just to ensure he doesn't forget his stuff. I'm really just waiting for this phase to over and best believe it he's going back to advanced obedience training very soon.
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Post by Lisa on Aug 17, 2011 20:29:33 GMT -5
We are making a progress to break Asha's stubborn streak She is doing much better.
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