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Post by Dobereich on Sept 17, 2011 0:14:07 GMT -5
Oh I would think that Jack wouldn't eat at all if Kazi comes over while in heat! Nice try though Barb.... and yes, I know it was you...lmao.
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Post by dobermoms on Sept 18, 2011 18:51:50 GMT -5
heeheehee...can't blame me for trying.........
p.s. I love you Kazi........
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Post by xplorer on Sept 22, 2011 9:11:30 GMT -5
Lilly eats her food in under 45 seconds ... all of it ... and wants more. I am very cautious of her weight and she is always at 90lbs. She is fed between 1 and 2 hours after going out for a run ... I never feed her before exercise and she has to stop panting before she get's her meal. Sometimes she turns her nose up and I'll add a some salmon to her food and it disappears in seconds. That or yogurt. She LOVES yogurt! I have recently switched foods again and she voraciously inhales it. I think she chews once in a while. lol I gues we are lucky she eats - but there are times when she just doesn't feel like eating .. and I figure we all go through that phase periodically.
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Post by hooligan on Oct 6, 2011 8:26:49 GMT -5
A quick update on Jack's eating habits.
I'm almost afraid to write this . . . but shortly after I posted my initial message about Jack's indifference to food, he gradually started eating more regularly and skipping fewer meals. And over the past eight days, he has eaten every meal -- on his own, without our doing goofy dances or performing other tricks to get him interested in food.
Eight days in a row is a record for him, and we're keeping our fingers crossed that he has turned a corner as far as eating is concerned.
Wish I could pinpoint what made the difference, but I can't. His exercise level is high as always, and we haven't changed his diet. Maybe he's in the midst of a developmental spurt? He's certainly looking less scrawny and more substantial, but this may be because he has been eating regularly as much as anything. No matter. I'm not yet breathing a sigh of relief . . . but I'm starting to think about doing so.
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Post by toyzshopgary on Oct 6, 2011 18:40:45 GMT -5
Hey Dyanne we seem to have solved Zeus's eating problems also. Our was a more dramatic way. After much deliberation and discussion and soul searching and discussions with Monica we decided to neuter Zeus. He was done Sept 8th. So it will be a month this weekend. They say at least a month and up to two to see the effects from neutering.
His 1st 7-10 days and the recovery was pretty tough, but after that it's been just more positive change since. We are 1 month after this weekend but already we see a very noticable positive change. He's more content, happy and loving overall and enjoying life. He marks far less and the big thing since the day of the surgery he has gained 5 lbs because he's eating regular meals like he should.
After getting past the 7-10 days of recovery his appitite showed improvement and since beyond the recovery he's eating 2 full meals a day and he wants his meals, not the picky, finicky Zeus of old. He's even started to be motivated somewhat with treat training for his obedience stuff we are working on.
When I saw how cool, calm and content Carolyne's Ronin who was neutered, was at the 2nd D.O.G meet and all the intact males Dante, Diesel, Jack and Zeus were foaming and all driven by their testicles in varying degrees, That's one of the things that started us back seriously thinking to neuter Zeus. Now almost 1 month later we are really happy we did it and should have done it long ago when he was around a year old and not waited so long.
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Post by Lisa on Oct 6, 2011 20:21:45 GMT -5
Oh poor Zeus lost his ball Seriously you made a right decision. Did they use a scalpel or laser? I have hard time to take Gino to snip his balls... and my husband doesn't like the idea. I guess Jack heard or read on the forum that Kazi was coming... LOL
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Post by hooligan on Oct 6, 2011 21:17:53 GMT -5
Whoa, Gary. That's a big step! Good for you (I think).
I know you'll be careful, but just a quick word of warning. Our previous Dobe was a self-feeder (kibble only). We filled his bowl, and he nibbled away at it all day. When it was empty, one of us simply threw in more kibble, which he ate at will. He ate as much as he needed to, maintaining himself at the perfect weight.
Then we had him neutered, while continuing the same feeding pattern. Duh. Not smart, especially as it took a while for us to figure out that he was wolfing his food while we were continuing to refill his bowl whenever it was empty. He was, needless to say, in seventh heaven.
One day we looked at him and it hit us: That dog is fat. He had blossomed to about 100 pounds, when his ideal weight was about 85 to 87 pounds. We immediately cut back his food and started feeding him only at specific times -- but getting his weight back down was hard. Especially for him. For a while, he was NOT a happy camper.
I'm not sure about this, but I also think the neutering slowed down his metabolism, so that even once he got back down to an ideal weight, the amount of food he needed to maintain this weight was lower than it had been before he was neutered.
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Post by ladydon on Oct 6, 2011 23:03:14 GMT -5
A lot of the dog owners who I know in the dog park claimed that their dog's appetite increased and that they became less picky after getting them fixed. That would be a plus for me since Diesel tends to be a bit picky when he eats so it results to him not eating at regular schedule. If I tire him out, he usually eats but if he hasn't had an outdoor experience especially in the morning, you can forget about him eating regardless if I add his favorites in his kibble. I still cringe at the idea of Diesel loosing his manhood but I know it'll be done one day. Just gotta wait till he fills out then I say bye bye to his marbles c'est la vie! He's just gonna have to suck it up. You are right though Gary. Ronin was so well behaved in D.O.G.II. I love our walks but it becomes tiresome at times when he's insistent on peeing on everything hence our walks tend to move at a glacial pace. I'd rather go to the dog park and let him loose so he can get it out of his system. He also has a bad habit of spotting other dogs pee of what must smell like potpourri to him then proceeds to lick it....bleh! Yuck! He has his good days and he has his bad days. Even when we go to the dog park, he never has a problem approaching intact or fixed males (he always approaches them with caution) but there are those rare occasions where mounting overrules playtime. So yes, he will definitely be neutered one day to hopefully lessen these male tendencies...as for when, time will tell. I'll never have to worry about him getting fat though...he always gets his daily runs rain or shine, thunderstorm or not. I fear he is looking a bit skinny despite my best efforts to fatten him up...and by that I mean making him eat his proper 6 cup a day meal. LOL.
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Post by toyzshopgary on Oct 7, 2011 9:52:39 GMT -5
Well it was a important decision but at this point we are very happy we did it. The positive change one month after is enough to make it worthwhile, if it gets better in the next month and beyond, that's added gravy. The word is at least a month and upwards to two to see the full benefit of a neuter so he's half way. Monica felt because he's not as bulked and big as some males, he could see the full benefit sooner and the tostorne could be out of his system sooner. Lisa it wasn't laser. Our vet doesn't do laser, but the incision and where it was, how it was done, was nice work. The incision was forward of his scrotum and they used the sutures that did not require removal. I sent Monica pictures regularly after the surgery and she liked how things were done and looked. I have pictures from each day up to around 2 weeks after and he healed up really nice and never had any issues with the site at all. I'm sure Monica saw enough pictures of Zeus's healing package to last her a lifetime . Now it's shrinking up pretty good and looks like a little dried prune ;D It was not all roses though! He was really freaked out from the surgery experience. He also had a plastic cone so he wouldn't lick and that really compounded things negative. He also was required to be kept leashed and not run for 7-10 days and that was nearly impossible. His 1st day was brutal getting his bladder to work again, he must have been in and out 50 times until finally about 2:00 AM he started to pee and then did forever. The next day was the same with his bowels until he finally had a dump about 2:00 AM. Next about 4 days in he finally ripped the plastic cone off as it was really driving him crazy. He was freaked out eating, drinking, even just walking around the house because no matter what he did he was banging the cone into something. Once the cone was off ,we left it off, and he never licked his incision area. We watched him like a hawk but I guess he was healed enough that he left it alone. 6-7 days after I started walking him around the block just a slow short controlled walk. The 1st few days is when he had the most swelling. The vet knew he gets 3 miles a day of walking and sometimes twice, so they weighed that he was going crazy being confined vs controlled shorter walks and some swelling and told me to start slowly and get him walking again. So from 6 days on and up to 12 days we slowly added more walking and watched to be sure he wasn't swelling too much or having issues with the incision area. 10 days after we could see positive change starting. Prior to that we were questioning our decision. he struggled with the overall event, he struggled with the dish cone collar, we think he had a reaction to the anestetic, we know he had pain. He was given 3 days of pain meds but even at that pretty sure he had pain during the early recovery based on how he was. At this point he's like a different dog in a positive way. More content, happy, loving. He seems to be responding more to the training we are doing, he's even taking some treat rewards in the training and he's lapping up affection rewards. He comes out the crate in the moring so happy and wiggly and grunting looking for a toy or with one in his mouth from his crate. He's back in the truck travelling and loving it. He's not peeing and marking even close to what he was. Dyanne he was like Jack and probably worse when it came to eating. I have a weight chart and weighed him at least once a month since the day he joined our family, Anal Gary! Once he was about a year old he's hovered around that 65-66 lbs mark. He's not a big male, not tall or long. He's pretty square and on the bottom of male standard at 26 1/2". I've tried everything to get him to eat, spoiling and also being tough, bottom line his weight really never changed because he was such a picky and inconsistent eater. Since his neuter he gained 4 lbs in 3 weeks as he was 70 lbs last week. Monica always put his ideal target weight in the 70-75 lbs range for his size and frame. The change has been he is now eating. So we will watch and if he starts to gain loo much reduce his meal sizes. Maybe in time if he's getting too heavy we might have to discuss with Monica another version of Acana for older dogs. I had thought all along Zeus II our previous doberman was neutered around 2 years old, but I dug back in his medical records and he was done just under a year old. Now that was over a dozen years ago, but my memory recalls he never had nearly as much challenge with being neutered. Fact or fiction our vet said even though Zeus III is a young dog ( he will be 3 years old in Nov) he's still older than usual based on time to neuter and partially some of why he had a tougher time. Hindsight being 20/20 we should have done the neuter back around the ideal age listed in the Dobereich manual. The only reason I didn't was because I'm a guy and thinking guy things and because we were dabbling in showing Zeus a little and left him intact for that. Bottom line when we made the decision a month ago there were far more potential benefits to neuter, than to leave him intact. The only reasons to leave him intact were for breeding and that was never in the plans or considered, and for showing and initally never really planned either. I liked giving him a shot at showing, he did do a few UKC shows and Monica pointed out yes CKC showing would never happen with a altered dog but UKC has an altered class so we could still try that in the future if we wanted. There were far more potential positive benefits from neutering and he was plenty old enough and developed to not need his testicles for development. Other than the tough time dealing with Zeus at the early stages of recovery, ever since the neuter has resulted in positive changes. Zeus hasn't turned into some miracle doberman revelation as a result of neuter, but he has changed in a positive way to make him a better family member. I have no regrets at this point 1 month later, except I should have done it much sooner. I've read so much on the internet and probably bent poor Monica's ear in person, by phone and email on the subject, that's she's probably sick of us. See what she thinks when she sees the new Zeus. That's our story and experience to this point 1 month after. I wasn't going to post much about this, but then I thought that I should because other male owners could be considering neuter and wondering. I'm sure each dog is different in how it would go for them, but I felt it's something I should share with my Dobereich family.
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Post by Andreina on Oct 7, 2011 10:16:33 GMT -5
Great post Gary!! As we were talking the other day, I'm very happy for how this has changed Zeus in a positive way! ;D I can't wait to see him in a couple weeks, Scarlet's gonna go crazy... (Even though he did get the snip lol.) It's so funny how neutering can sometimes change a dogs personality like that. Do you think he will better get along with other males now?
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Post by toyzshopgary on Oct 7, 2011 10:42:17 GMT -5
Andrenia I don't know if other dog agression has changed? Zeus has been around other intact males ever since he was just over a year old. I took him to tons of shows and he was around the doberman ring. He did a few shows too. He was never the one to start anything, BUT if another male challenged him (that's what always happened) he was ready to defend.
Eric's Ronin, Dante Zeus's brother, Diesel all have taken runs at Zeus and they started it not Zeus. Also a couple male mutts at a Xmas tree farm last Xmas and a young Golden retriever we see many times on local walks all have challenged Zeus in the past. He was never the 1st agressor but I know in all those situations he was ready to not take crap from another male. I would say in the last 6-8 months he may have become quicker to react if challenged.
He's never been agressive to other dogs. He's not the one barking and growling on walks or around other dogs, yet not a day goes by that a dog(s) we meet on walks are not barking, growling, showing agression towards him. He just keeps going, no barking, lunging, growling, charging etc from him, worst case he's alert, hackles up and ears up.
So I don't know at this point if he's any better or worse? He might be less intense and less quick to react but he's not had any dog attack him recently? Larry the Golden came close about 2 weeks after the neuter and other than alert and hackles up and watching, Zeus continued on his walk with me.
I would still not let him run free with other male dogs any breed, intact or altered. Females I think he's ok, as he was before. Last free run was with Cajun back in July and they were ok. He was also around Autumn and the younger black female pup at Monica's just before he was neutered, he was on a flexi lead and the pups were free and he seemed fine with them.
He was close to Bryce this past week for a few minutes, both leashed and Bryce was jumping and being a puppy (he's a big boy no puppy anymore) and Zeus didn't seem to care at all, but they weren't close enough to be jumping on each other and I wouln't take the chance by allowing it.
Joanne and Reyna and Zeus and I are hoping to have a walk together on Sunday in Grimsby so that will be interesting to see how Zeus and Reyna are together.
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Post by dobereyna on Oct 7, 2011 19:28:18 GMT -5
So happy you shared all of this Gary! Reyna and I can't wait to see you both on Sunday! We should take them out to run! Bring your speedometer thing... Reyna's quick LOL, just ask Diesel BTW - Check your DM's later this weekend, I'll confirm time. Noon-ish is perfect.
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Post by dobermoms on Oct 7, 2011 20:43:44 GMT -5
So.....does this mean that Kazi can't come over and visit with Jack?
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Post by toyzshopgary on Oct 8, 2011 9:56:20 GMT -5
Thanks Jo! No real good freerun place that I know of in Grimsby. I drive to Cayuga and the dragstrip and it would be awesome to have you and Reyna joins us there once, but this isn't the weekend as the track is racing this weekend.
Let's keep that thought open for the future! The track closes by mid November so maybe after that if you are in Grimsby one weekend we could drive out to TMP for a run and I'll bring the radar gun and clock Reyna and Zeus.
Noonish is great for tomorrow.
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Post by toyzshopgary on Oct 8, 2011 10:15:56 GMT -5
I thought maybe after the 2 long stories of the "Neuter Experience"possibly a picture was in order? I snapped the attached picture a few minutes ago. Zeus in all his glory showing off what he DOESN'T HAVE anymore. It's one month today since his neuter and all he has to show is a dried up looking prune at this point Attachments:
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