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Post by dobermoms on Jan 4, 2011 18:16:41 GMT -5
I would like to know the benefits and drawbacks in regards to health and disposition in neutering. Does it help with Male aggression ?, Does it lessen the chance of prostate problems ?? What age ? etc.... Thanking everyone in advance for all your advice... P.S...Please don't let Dante know I am posting this question...
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Post by toyzshopgary on Jan 4, 2011 19:32:29 GMT -5
I think Monica is your best guide to answer. I know with Zeus II it didn't change anything agression related.
I remember though Prince and Zeus II the 2 we neuterd gained weight for sure after. I also remember they became more calm and less intense, but it could have also been because they also got past that 2 year age range when they were neutered.
You can't show a neutered male in CKC. I think in UKC they have altered classes for showing.
Tough decision. I know Dante's brother Zeus likes the ladies but he's not trying to go around humping people legs and stuff. I know Zeus LOVES Cajun and was trying to lick her ears and court her and any other female that would give him attention at the UKC Show in Nov. You can ask Monica about it...pretty funny what he was doing to try and court the ladies. So he knows the routine and I think given opportunity he would be very quickly in action if given the opportunity and allowed to proceed.
The only human he seems to have that same loving feeling is my youngest step grandaughter who is 4. She really likes Zeus and likes to pet him and be around him, more then all the other grandkids. We watch Zeus closely around her as he likes being with her and around her, but given the opportunity he will try and get her in position to try and mount her. He's not agressive or anything like that but I guess because she's small and maybe a female he figures it's worth a shot.
At this point Zeus's package is safe and no plans or intentions of "doing the deed" to him.
Tough decision, good luck!
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Post by dobermoms on Jan 4, 2011 21:04:50 GMT -5
Dante is not trying to mount any females...He sounds like Zues when it comes to as you call courting...He nuzzles and licks their ears but it stops there..We also have a friend who has a 12 year old daughter and she always has sat with him and gives him a lot of attention..She is the only person that he has tried to mount...
It's been in the far back of my mind so I thought I'd just put the question out there because as you know we all only whats best for our boys...
Kerrie
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Post by toyzshopgary on Jan 4, 2011 21:46:12 GMT -5
I'm sure Monica will put up the pros and cons .......poor Dante! Ouch I'm sheding a tear for his package ;D JUST KIDDING......
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Post by Dobereich on Jan 4, 2011 21:50:24 GMT -5
OK, so if you think your getting away with this without Dante knowing.... I'm TELLING him! LOL. Male on male aggression is a Dobermann issue, a dog issue, and not always a issue of being intact or not. Only one thing is certain, neutering will prevent your dog from reproducing. Besides that, it won't even guarantee that your male won't actually still breed a female. I did give you a recommendation of the best age to neuter within your purchase agreement. That being between 1-6 years of age. With Dante being so tall and not quite filled out yet, I'd wait at least till after 3 years of age in order to allow him the proper growth hormones. However, I will say that with a small percentage of dogs that have G.I. issues relating to hormones, then dogs within this class would actually benefit from being neutered. That's doesn't really apply to Dante though, and he's already past that age when this is an issue. If there is a sensitivity, it typically bugs them around 10-18 months. As you may know, I have owned intact males all my life, and I have never had an issue bringing my males places. However I tell everyone who gets a male, (breeding, neutered, pet, or otherwise).... male Dobes can be aggressive with other like males. They are usually great with some breeds, especially toy breeds. But put them together with a dominant working class male and it could be game on. It's a Dobe's instinct to protect themselves, and Dobermanns are a socially dominant dog in comparison to some other breeds. They typically come into a pack on their toes, head high, saying "the king has arrived!". Argus is good with some males, he met little Jimmy (male pug) on the lawn unexpectedly and he was very gentle and kind with him. As you know, Argus is an intact stud male. So it really just depends. Call me and we can chat about this some more. If you ask me specific questions here I will come back and answer them as well. But in short, there aren't a lot of health concerns before the age of 6 years. Keep up with the health exams and neuter if there are any signs of enlargement of the prostate. You have to ask your vet to check though, they don't always reach for the gloves.
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Post by toyzshopgary on Jan 4, 2011 22:31:20 GMT -5
I can hear Zeus's package singing Halleula as I read your post Monica!
I think one of the best things I've ever done for Zeus was the time with you socalizing at shows. He's so good around other dogs of any size or shapes. He's never dog agressive out in public or walks...That's funny, "King has arrived Attitude" boy does that fit!
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Post by Dobereich on Jan 7, 2011 16:48:28 GMT -5
OK, all joking aside though, you must have known that I was going to have to come back with a bit more meaty information and not just my own personal opinion. Although I have to give that as well. The University of Guelph headed up a study on the prostate, this being the real issue brought up by most vets when discussing the pros and cons of neutering. www.uoguelph.ca/~rfoster/repropath/surgicalpath/male/dog/maledog_prostate.htm I found the results very interesting on some of the other studies mentioned from previous studies, and noted that there were generally more cases of enlargement in intact dogs as they aged, but more cases of carcinoma in castrated dogs! This one take a long time to read through, and a bit of veterinary or medical knowledge in some parts. But its as real as it gets, and a good read. The other topic of interest pertains to aggression, and seeing that most everyone who is a member on this forum either owns a Dobereich dog, or has met several of them. Being intact has little to do with aggression, especially dominance aggression. There can be hormonal sensitivities, but in most cases behaviours arise out of a permissive environment. Be it accidentally, or intentional, we allow the dog the room to test their boundaries. This then becomes more about behaviour in a social relationship then it does about testicles. I have never been challenged by one of my intact breeding males, and if anyone would be prone to it, a stud surely would be one would think? I will say however that I have had several neutered dominant males come into my training. Every time the owners saying "he was becoming dominant and feeling his manhood, so we were advised to neuter, which didn't help". If they went for behavioural training first, they likely would have not seen or needed to resort to castration, as they would have learned about proper leadership. Its not to say that a male cannot benefit from being neutered. There are reasons for it, and there are benefits when done at the right time. But I do believe that we rush our dogs into this procedure blindly and fail to see the relationship that the testes have to other growth hormones, and general wholeness within the body. There are some other interesting articles on DT forum, perhaps luvbirds would cross-post the link? I'd really like to open this topic up for others. Here is another article on prostate cancer. www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/prostate-cancer-in-dogs.html
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Post by luvbirds on Jan 24, 2011 9:37:09 GMT -5
Personally I think if you are a responsible owner and you don't want to neuter, there is no good reason to do it. My Petey has never tried to mount a person or another dog. Personally I feel that is more of a training issue. I see lots of neutered dogs, male and female mounting each other and owners who don't stop them. They don't think their dogs are being dominate with other dogs, and they are. If Monty shows inappropriate interest with another dog, he is stopped immediately, if he continues....we leave...play time over. This link has some good information about early spaying and neutering and what the hormones do to protect the dog, and I really believe that taking away an animals hormones does cause problems, just like it does in humans. My personal vet was the one to tell me NOT to neuter Petey. He and I had many discussions about it, and decided that it was in his best interest and health to leave him intact. My vet also...does not give the same advice to all his clients, because for the greater good...MOST people need to spay and neuter their pets. www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
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Post by schgirl on Mar 28, 2011 8:38:18 GMT -5
I have a intact male who is almost 2 years old. He does act a little silly around the females but other than that he's pretty normal. He is fine with males that do not posture, but personally I think even if he was neutered it would be the same. Like Monica said it's a Doberman thing.
I keep Cash intact because the theory is they perform better in there chosen sports. For us that is Schutzhund, and I do think there is some truth to this. I find the intact males are more pumped up and full of themselves!
Personally if I was just keeping a male as a pet only, I would have him neutered once he matured and fully developed.
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